Obama vs Clinton

twat-ers wrote:and people with high IQs can talk rubbish. So can we leave it out the discussion?

Yep, I think Widdows has proved your point there.

Flamur wrote:

twat-ers wrote:and people with high IQs can talk rubbish. So can we leave it out the discussion?

Yep, I think Widdows has proved your point there.

Can personal comments also be left out? I'm all for a civil discussion, but this is becoming a slanging match.

twat-ers wrote:

Flamur wrote:

twat-ers wrote:and people with high IQs can talk rubbish. So can we leave it out the discussion?

Yep, I think Widdows has proved your point there.

Can personal comments also be left out? I'm all for a civil discussion, but this is becoming a slanging match.

Then I believe people should refrain from posting about facts they're unclear about.

NotABrick wrote:

Oh and Shadow if you think the US (and the remaining UK soldiers) are
losing in Iraq you are sorely ignorant. We are killing way more of them
than they are of us.

Oh well in that case it makes the whole thing ok then. As long as more of them die, it's all good. The Field Marshal might be able to move his drinks cabinet 6 inches closer to Berlin [+5 cool points if you get the reference]. The Iraqi government is a mess, as is their law enforcement. We'll say nought of their infastructure. As the mission of the whole thing was to remove Saddam, and set up a new government, I'd say this is far from a success. Although it seems the anti-west sentiment from the whole thing is _slowly_ dying away, although it could just be becoming less vocal.

Fact of the matter is, there are no winners in Iraq, only losers. The US and Uk armies because this was never supposed to be a 5+ year long thing costing trillions, and more importantly, hundreds of men, and the Iraqis for obvious reasons.

Black Adder!!!!! i think so at least.

also i thought this was about the US election?

widdows9000 wrote:EDIT: WTF!! Where the hell did I threaten you? Also Flamur I know how the Iraq war works, I watch the news and I've read a few books about it. What the hell is that about me being above someone? Of course I'm going to get a power trip on erep. You need to learn to talk in a nice, civilised way without insulting anyone.

Lmao, I must of missed this bit.

Not in this thread, in another. News doesn't tell you shit. I know how to talk to people, but there's no need to respect someone that has no consideration about other peoples lives and thinks wars are won by a scale of death or kills.

tim09 wrote:

NotABrick wrote:

Oh and Shadow if you think the US (and the remaining UK soldiers) are
losing in Iraq you are sorely ignorant. We are killing way more of them
than they are of us.

Oh well in that case it makes the whole thing ok then. As long as more of them die, it's all good. The Field Marshal might be able to move his drinks cabinet 6 inches closer to Berlin [+5 cool points if you get the reference]. The Iraqi government is a mess, as is their law enforcement. We'll say nought of their infastructure. As the mission of the whole thing was to remove Saddam, and set up a new government, I'd say this is far from a success. Although it seems the anti-west sentiment from the whole thing is _slowly_ dying away, although it could just be becoming less vocal.

Fact of the matter is, there are no winners in Iraq, only losers. The US and Uk armies because this was never supposed to be a 5+ year long thing costing trillions, and more importantly, hundreds of men, and the Iraqis for obvious reasons.

Black Adder!!!!! i think so at least.

also i thought this was about the US election?

It was, untill Widdows decided to make it personal with Shadow.

Maybe next time he won't post and let us discuss what we were discussing.



Back on topic, if an admin could delete all the bullshit posts and widdows refrain from posting anymore.

Clinton and Obama had a unannounced meeting (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7438930.stm)

"A spokesman for Mr Obama said the two former opponents met to talk
about bringing their campaigns together and uniting the party." -- This is just another way of showing that Clinton lost and wants to join the winning team.

"
Mrs Clinton has distanced herself from reports that she was hoping to stand as a vice-presidential running mate." -- It's all she wants I reckon. What else is in it for her other than that?

widdows9000 wrote:Lol Flamur don't bring my age into this. I understand a hell of a lot more than people thrice my age. Also Shadow was being racist. He explicitly said that all americans are gun freaks. Weird how when Paul says Shadow shouldn't be president because he's Belgian everyone jumps on the racism bandwagon yet when Shadow picks on a country no one likes no one gives a shit.

don't you think many Americans are gun freaks? I've seen a guy walking around with a fricking mp5 in the middle of New York!!!!! There are ppl in the US that own M-16 rifles. That's the biggest stuff out there. Those aren't sport weapons anymore. My dad is firing range instructor and I go sport shooting myself occasionally as well. But there is a huuuuge difference between shooting with a 7mm pistol or a 9mm then there with with a car-15 with grenade launcher barrel under it. In Europe it takes almost a year before you get a gun permit and even if you have one there are tons of restrictions and and you walk with it on the street and you can only shoot on firing ranges. It's impossible for a non-soldier/policeman to buy anything but low calibre pistol. I've seen war ammunition in a fricking wall mart last time I was in the US. War ammunition?!?!?!?!? can you believe that? And I wasn't making a racial comment, I was pointing out that there is a way larger group of those gun morons in the US then there is in the rest of the world. Some ppl still believe that they must own a gun "in case the British King decides to attack the US" What else can you answer to that then "/facepalm"

And don't accuse me of being a racist. I'm not targeting a the entire US population. Just the group that voted that moron twice. And stupidity has nothing to do with race.

widdows9000 wrote:
Shadow ethose people fighting for Iraq's liberty are nothing terrorists. If they wanted to help Iraq then they would be co-operating with the coalition forces and not trying to kill them.

one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Ppl like George Washington where seen as a terrorist by the British as well. Look at the situation in Iraq now. It's an even bigger mess then when Saddam was in power. In the Saddam era ppl where arrested over nothing, but at least there was order and a chance to lead a normal life. Now ppl are randomly arrested as well (you can just go to the police in Iraq and say you're neighbour is a terrorist and he'll have a delta team at his bed the next night to pick him up for a 3th grade investigation) and the difference is that there is no order now. a average of 5 bombings a day. Ppl can't come out of their houses, everyone is afraid. Who's fault do you think that is? All Bush needs to do is give Iraq in the hands of the US and then a peace force will come that consists of soldiers from all around the world who are neutral and who won't do random arrests. They will be respected more and will probably do a better job in keeping order since many Muslim countries will sent troops as well. In stead Bush chooses to keep the country for himself so his company can make as much profit out of it as possible.

Oh and don't bring the crap propaganda you see on fox network that things are going better in Iraq. My dad often visits the country and It's only going worse there. It has gotten to the point where the US doesn't even dare to sent troops out of the "green zone".

widdows9000 wrote:
And Flamur, you're right I don't care about Talibani or Al Qaeda lives. They are scum out to kill our lads, rather them than us, simple as.

The Taliban is a totally different story then the Iraqi resistance. If you know so much about them, why are you mixing them up then? The Iraqi ppl fight for freedom and the chance to get a real government.

widdows9000 wrote:EDIT: Flamur, the Iranians are a threat to world peace and they've done nothing but kill our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan by providing arms and training to the terrorists, they don't deserve respect.

Again you do not seem to understand the whole situation. On your US network stations you'll only get to see a small fragment of Ahmedinijahd saying "we will kill the American and Israeli pigs and nuke them" or the something like that. What you don't get to see is that a) It's only a small part of his speech b)Achmedinijahd is a more eccentric person in Iran. They are a civilised country you know. It's not a country with goats and a few sand hills. They one some of the best university's in the world, and in the pharmaceutical sector they are well known. And Ahmedinijahd would never sent a nuke to the Americans or the Israeli's, even if he had nukes, because the moment he would press that "launch" button there would 50 nuclear missiles on their way towards Iran.

And Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan have nothing to do with each other. If you would know so much about it, you would at least know that in Iraq the majority are soenits and in Afghanistan sjijiets. (sry, don't know how you write that in English) and that those 2 groups hate each other.

widdows9000 wrote:First of all I said Talibani or Al Qaeda lives. I at no point said I wanted citizens to die. Also I think you mean Iraqi deaths not Iranian deaths.

Have you ever stood still and wondered: "Why do these young guys blow themselves up? Why do they waste their life to kill Americans?" Noone just takes his own life just for fun or for money. They take their own life because they have seen themselves all the horrors that have happened since the US "invasion" and they see anything is better then the life they have now.

widdows9000 wrote:Twat-ers I didn't mean I think the whole of Iran is a threat. I meant their nutcase of a president and the students out there who protested to have our captured Navy personnel's heads chopped off.

Again you do not ask yourself the question: "why they want to see those guys head chopped off?" If there is some guy on the other side of the world contantly calling you and you're country part of the "axis of evil" and that he's going "to nuke you" and your leaders are terrorists, wouldn't you be angry of that person and the ppl that elected him? If the Mexican president would constantly say in the news "the Americans are idiots, we will nuke them and slaughter them all" I guess it won't be long before the US army reaches Mexico city.

You say you have a high IQ widdows. If you really have so much brains, then I think it's about time you learn to use it and start by not accepting everything some politician says on TV.

Shadow, you're still providing a highly opinionated point of view whilst slamming others for holding one.

There are gun nuts in the US, correct, there are gun nuts everywhere.
They have a problem with shootings, we have problems with stabbings.
There's a failing in their protection of their citizens, which is one cost of freedom.

"In stead Bush chooses to keep the country for himself so his company can make as much profit out of it as possible."

ermmm, It;s not about money for Bush, it's about revenge for him. His father failed, and he's finishing the job. Big Oil and Haliburton are the real profiters from this war, they just gave GWB some justification$.

You are correct on Iran's President (and I'm not even going to TRY and spell it... )
But Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan DO have something in common. Islam.
This is what the war is really on, and why it actually had support in the first place.
Funny how more rednecks in the US are not voting for Obama because they heard a rumour he was a muslim, than because of his race now.

Ip Lockard wrote:they just gave GWB some justification$.

GWB - good whiskey bar?

Ip Lockard wrote:Shadow, you're still providing a highly opinionated point of view whilst slamming others for holding one.

There are gun nuts in the US, correct, there are gun nuts everywhere.
They have a problem with shootings, we have problems with stabbings.
There's a failing in their protection of their citizens, which is one cost of freedom.

"In stead Bush chooses to keep the country for himself so his company can make as much profit out of it as possible."

ermmm, It;s not about money for Bush, it's about revenge for him. His father failed, and he's finishing the job. Big Oil and Haliburton are the real profiters from this war, they just gave GWB some justification$.

You are correct on Iran's President (and I'm not even going to TRY and spell it... )
But Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan DO have something in common. Islam.
This is what the war is really on, and why it actually had support in the first place.
Funny how more rednecks in the US are not voting for Obama because they heard a rumour he was a muslim, than because of his race now.

IP, why do you think the war is on Islam? There are many muslims in America and UK...

And I had a funny video on my faviorates about some rednecks saying they're voting for McCain because they want Hussein dead (And this was recent) which shows that there really are stupid people that are allowed to vote.

Obama has a Muslim father I believe, and spent alot of his childhood in a mostly-mulsim country (Indonesia I think it was?) which is why there are rumours that he himself is Muslim, but he's said time and time again that he's never practiced islam and isn't a muslim.

he do is christian (and to be honnest what would it matter, except for when he would be radical and then he wouldn't even say he's a christian, he would be proud to be muslim)

and i think that one the only conclusions of this discussion is the fact that people (on both sides) can easily be manipulated for the intrests of a few. and don't you think that you will be immune to this (high IQ or not, if that matters anything), if a small but connected group of people want to let you believe something, then you will have a need for a great society to halt them

malchert wrote:he do is christian (and to be honnest what would it matter, except for when he would be radical and then he wouldn't even say he's a christian, he would be proud to be muslim)

It does matter, because alot of americans don't like muslims. Don't tell me I'm racist because it's true. They may not want to admit it, but they do.

I like the way that I aired my opinion about the Iraq war and that now, on MSN, Flamur has said 'you mean nothing to me' and that I'm 'ignorant' and he's 'lost all respect he had for me'. Weird, seems you're not allowed an opinion anymore. Also mate if you get off on one just constantly having a go at a 15 year old go ahead. I never attacked anyone personally. I just said that I thought Shadow was being racist.

Shadow, you seem to think I'm American (you keep saying about Fox). I'm english mate just so you know.

widdows9000 wrote:I like the way that I aired my opinion about the Iraq war and that now, on MSN, Flamur has said 'you mean nothing to me' and that I'm 'ignorant' and he's 'lost all respect he had for me'. Weird, seems you're not allowed an opinion anymore. Also mate if you get off on one just constantly having a go at a 15 year old go ahead. I never attacked anyone personally. I just said that I thought Shadow was being racist.

Have an opinion all you want mate, i couldn't care less. But I said to you that I don't respect people I think are idiotic and ignorant. If you had proper reasons to back up your opinion, I wouldn't of minded. But you don't. And lol, get off on one just constantly having a go at a 15 year old...lmao, do you usually enjoy repeating MSN conversations here? You're age means nothing to me. It just shows that you're too young to understand what a war is completely about. Like you said on MSN, war is about manpower and killing. You kept referring to some crappy book. Ofcourse soldiers that write books arn't going to write "I beat up some Iraqi guy in Iraq" or "I stripped some prisoners naked and took pictures of them". They're going to explain how they killed so many terrorists and did nothing but good.

And you didn't just say Shadow was racist. You said "No wonder you got voted out" and "You are sorely ignorant." Therefore, you did personally attack him.

Lol, Flamur you're a cunt... Do you actually like anybody in this game?

(That was not a personal attack...)

You could argue American's dislike of Muslims is due in part to Social Conflict Theory, the conflict being for natural oil and socio-economic status.

shadow wrote:And don't accuse me of being a racist. I'm not targeting a the entire
US population. Just the group that voted that moron twice. And
stupidity has nothing to do with race.

So you're against a large minority then? =). Voter turnout in 2000 was tiny, and Bush lost the popular vote, but due to the broken election system of the Us he got in (Ignoring the stunts Jeb Bush pulled in Florida too). The second time, well, there is not excuse I guess. Won popular vote, large voter turnout, etc. giant clusterfuck.

And Ahmedinijahd would never sent a nuke to the Americans or the
Israeli's, even if he had nukes, because the moment he would press that
"launch" button there would 50 nuclear missiles on their way towards
Iran.

dingdingding. No nation-state will ever nuke another without first being nuked for this reason.

are soenits and in Afghanistan sjijiets.

I think you mean Sunni and Shia Muslims, although I could be wrong (For your future reference =P)

Have you ever stood still and wondered: "Why do these young guys blow
themselves up? Why do they waste their life to kill Americans?" No one
just takes his own life just for fun or for money. They take their own
life because they have seen themselves all the horrors that have
happened since the US "invasion" and they see anything is better then
the life they have now.

Partially true, based on my understanding anyway. They are lead to believe things are worse than they are by radical (and a small number of the total), Imams, who use their disillusionedness to their own advantage. It's similar to how Fox news brainwashes American really. Of course by people blowing themselves up it makes it all worse, and becomes a self fulfilling prophecy anyway, leading to more people doing it, and I think unchecked you'd see an exponential growth.

As for calling them Axis of evil, it's a very clever propaganda point, as whenever anyone says axis, I think of nazis, and therefore think negativly about the subject of the statement. Which then pisses off the populace in this axis of evil, leading to pissed off immams, leading to the problems stated above =P

Personally, I say make Iraq part of Switzerland for the time being. Forget the UN, forget the US, the Swiss are the true neutrals. Yes, this is a kinda of random and bacly thought through statement, but they're fun to make =)

Shadow, you seem to think I'm American (you keep saying about Fox). I'm english mate just so you know.

Fox news are basically renowned outside the Us as being the most biased source of news possible, and ultra-conservative morons. They call users of 4chan terrorists (From what I understand, a bunch of them are in Pakistan on this game. A nicer bunch than you'd think really, but that's a different story), call for video games to be banned, mock people who's views don't agree with theirs live on air, and are watched by millions at any one time. Owned by Rupert Murdoch, says it all really.

Flam, I also said on MSN that I knew about the war for the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people. Yet you seem to forget that. Also, Shadow, Afghanistan and Iraq have a vital thing in common which is why I compared them: they both have resistance forces against us and the type of warfare (guerilla) being employed by the rebels is the same.

mr. brodie wrote:Lol, Flamur you're a cunt... Do you actually like anybody in this game?

(That was not a personal attack...)

Everyone apart from you and W9k.


And NotABrick, the majority of those that don't like muslims in the USA I would assume are those that aren't as well educated as others and dont like muslims because of 9/11 or similar events. I'm not sure though, I'm not american.

widdows9000 wrote:Flam, I also said on MSN that I knew about the war for the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people. Yet you seem to forget that. Also, Shadow, Afghanistan and Iraq have a vital thing in common which is why I compared them: they both have resistance forces against us and the type of warfare (guerilla) being employed by the rebels is the same.

I'm sorry I didn't keep the convo up to double-check everything we wrote, because I found it pointless.

Widdows, you have no understanding of what actually goes on in Iraq or Afghanistan. I believe you told me that you base your opinions on that little book you read and the news. Not very good sources.

I've been told not to post here anymore so this is my final post. What do you base your opinions on?

And NotABrick, the majority of those that don't like muslims in the
USA I would assume are those that aren't as well educated as others and
dont like muslims because of 9/11 or similar events. I'm not sure
though, I'm not american.

There was a general mis-trust of the region going back longer than 9/11, but yeah, that is definatly a contributing factor to the current problem I'd guess. I can't be 100% either, I'm not American either, although I've got family over there.

widdows9000 wrote:I've been told not to post here anymore so this is my final post. What do you base your opinions on?

I base my opinions on a number of factors. And my opinion is always open and subject to change should I feel differently or be convinced about a subject.

- Real life accounts from people I TALK to (Not read about)
- Books.
- Documentarys (Obviously after doing my own research if in doubt about some of the reasons)
- News (Only after I do independant research about the topic at hand)
- Relatives that have experienced war (Kosova - Serbia war.)

I'm sure theres more, but I'm late for my evening out.

NotABrick wrote:

And Ahmedinijahd would never sent a nuke to the Americans or the
Israeli's, even if he had nukes, because the moment he would press that
"launch" button there would 50 nuclear missiles on their way towards
Iran.

dingdingding. No nation-state will ever nuke another without first being nuked for this reason.

So it will be par defenition impoosible that there ever will be a launch of a nuke. Going to sleep much easier tonigth. (unless we get bombed by aliens [crawls back in bombshelter])

on a more serious note: I think that most of you agree that the USA hadn't a possitif effect on world-peace, let it not destroy the peace in the eUK also.

Sooooo many people in the UK are racist its ridiculous.
I'd hate to imagine what USA is like for racism if the UK is anything to go by.

I'm "the anti-racist one", not only in my family, but also out of my mates too.
It is very worrying though... the state of the UK and the muslims within it.

Yep SBJ, it actually worries me. Just today I nearly got my mate beat up because I told him not to worry about crossing an under-pass when we heard a man shouting "Kill all Arabs" and "Arabs need to die!". Long story short, he got aggressive to him. Racism is something that unfourtunatly will never die out. Ever.