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Obama vs Clinton

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mr. brodie
widdows9000
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Post by shadow Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:20 pm

widdows9000 wrote:Oh and Shadow if you think the US (and the remaining UK soldiers) are losing in Iraq you are sorely ignorant. We are killing way more of them than they are of us.

Do you really believe that? Then you haven't paid attention in your history class. In Vietnam, there where 10 times more casualties on the Vietnamese side then on the US side. Yet Vietnam is slur on the image of the US. The era's where victory of wars was claimed based on defeats or deaths is long gone. Wars are now won by the public on the home front. As long as the public's opinion is still behind the war and doesn't mind the fact daily soldiers die, they are not losing.

The Iraqi ppl has accepted the fact that it loses it's son's and daughters in order to fight for freedom. It has been struggling with loses for so many years now due to the dictatorship of Saddam. They have learned to accept that ppl must die, just as the Vietnamese did. The Americans on the other hand haven't.

And let's not forget. It's a Iraqi resistance movement that consist of a civilians with very limited military training, against the best equipped, best trained, best organized army in the world. They pay their generals and intelligence services millions. The Iraqi's make their bombs from kitchen materials, the US forces pay billions for their equipment, and yet the Iraqi resistance is growing every day.

If you want to win a war these days, you need to get the public behind you. Every great military strategist in the History of humanity, from Sun tzu, till robert Green or Niccolo Machiavelly wrote about it, but for some reason the Americans don't seem to understand that.

And no, I'm not being a racist. The American ppl is a warm and gentle ppl. I've been in lots of places and nowhere have I felt more warmth then in the US.

oh and widdows, if there's one subject you can't outsmart me, it's military strategy, almost half my family is or has served in the military and I'm planning on doing the same. I've literally grown up with Sun Tzu's art of war and other military books.

and frankly, you may find my comments racist. If find your comment disrespectful for those who have fallen in the believe that they where liberating Iraq.
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Post by shadow Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:22 pm

Flamur wrote:
Second of all, everyone stereotypes something whether they like it or not. We have a right to stereotype americans if we want from what their representative (Their president, which THEY voted for) has done.

exactly, If more then 50% of the ppl elected Bush a second time, even though he screwed up big time, then it is my opinion and my right to think that those 50% wheren't thinking when they voted or that the political system in the US is corrupt.
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Post by shadow Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:25 pm

NotABrick wrote:
The problem with the Us government, is that no matter who is in charge, the scope for change is actually more limited than you'd think. All (well, most), politicians are in it for their own gain, and if they don't vote the way a certain party(Big business, lobby groups, etc) wants them too, they'll lose campaign money that'll get them re-elected, and so lose the power, and the position in the public eye.

exactly what I wanted to point out when I meant the whole US political system is out-dated and practically gives the impulse for corruption.


here in belgium politicians get their funds from their party and from their party alone. This way you prevent all those ppl who gave you funds during the elections to come back afterwards asking for "a favour".
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Post by shadow Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:26 pm

btw: "all wars are civil wars, for all men are brothers"
-W. Churchill-
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Post by benskis Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:28 pm

it's all about the money (oil) in Iraq... who the f.. cares of liberty in there? uncle sam just needs to hide the inside problems... i'm sorry for the guys who died there.. but everyone of them knew where are they going and was paid for that... fights for freedom... it's just a propaganda...
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Post by twaters Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:25 pm

Everyone seems to think that the war is all about oil, but i for one credit the Americans with more intelligence than that. The war has done nothing but damage to their economy, and a blind bat (who happens to be an economist) would have been able to predict that.
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Post by Flamur Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:36 pm

benskis wrote:it's all about the money (oil) in Iraq... who the f.. cares of liberty in there?

Iranians are also people, and deserve as much liberty and justice as anyone else in this world.
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Post by widdows9000 Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:40 pm

Lol Flamur don't bring my age into this. I understand a hell of a lot more than people thrice my age. Also Shadow was being racist. He explicitly said that all americans are gun freaks. Weird how when Paul says Shadow shouldn't be president because he's Belgian everyone jumps on the racism bandwagon yet when Shadow picks on a country no one likes no one gives a shit.

Shadow those people fighting for Iraq's liberty are nothing terrorists. If they wanted to help Iraq then they would be co-operating with the coalition forces and not trying to kill them.

And Flamur, you're right I don't care about Talibani or Al Qaeda lives. They are scum out to kill our lads, rather them than us, simple as.

EDIT: Flamur, the Iranians are a threat to world peace and they've done nothing but kill our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan by providing arms and training to the terrorists, they don't deserve respect.
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Post by Flamur Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:46 pm

widdows9000 wrote:Lol Flamur don't bring my age into this. I understand a hell of a lot more than people thrice my age. Also Shadow was being racist. He explicitly said that all americans are gun freaks. Weird how when Paul says Shadow shouldn't be president because he's Belgian everyone jumps on the racism bandwagon yet when Shadow picks on a country no one likes no one gives a shit.

Shadow those people fighting for Iraq's liberty are nothing terrorists. If they wanted to help Iraq then they would be co-operating with the coalition forces and not trying to kill them.

And Flamur, you're right I don't care about Talibani or Al Qaeda lives. They are scum out to kill our lads, rather them than us, simple as.

EDIT: Flamur, the Iranians are a threat to world peace and they've done nothing but kill our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan by providing arms and training to the terrorists, they don't deserve respect.

You've simply proven that you're age is a huge factor in what you know or can see.

So you're telling me that every single iranian and afghan death out there has only been someone part of a terrorist organisation, and no one's little child has been killed or no one's mum has been murdered? I'm sure that kid that got blown up by a car bomb a couple of months ago was part of Al Qaeda.

Paul made a personal attack, Shadow hasn't. Maybe if you've seen any of Michael Moore's documentarys or grew up a little bit then you'd understand.
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Post by twaters Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:51 pm

widdows9000 wrote:And Flamur, you're right I don't care about Talibani or Al Qaeda lives. They are scum out to kill our lads, rather them than us, simple as.

EDIT: Flamur, the Iranians are a threat to world peace and they've done nothing but kill our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan by providing arms and training to the terrorists, they don't deserve respect.

They say we are scum out to kill theirs. Violence will only lead to more violence. And you're stereotyping whole nations because of preconceived notions, i hardly think it's fair to assume that every Iranian is a threat to world peace, i know 2 (half) iranians, and though they might disagree with the USA politically, they don't want to nuke them. The government in Iran isn't free from corruption (and i expect erepublik is banned in Iran) and you cannot simply base your views on the whole country based on the leaders.

As for not caring about the Taliban or Al Qaeda, why not? They've grown up being told that america are scum, and have probably lost family members/friends at their hands too. It's not so simple. But it's not beyond possibilty that these people can change their lives.
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Post by benskis Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:51 pm

Flamur wrote:
benskis wrote:it's all about the money (oil) in Iraq... who the f.. cares of liberty in there?

Iranians are also people, and deserve as much liberty and justice as anyone else in this world.

never told that Iranians are not... did i?
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Post by widdows9000 Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:53 pm

First of all I said Talibani or Al Qaeda lives. I at no point said I wanted citizens to die. Also I think you mean Iraqi deaths not Iranian deaths. Explain to me, what was immature about my last post?

Oh and really don't talk to me like I'm a 5 year old. I've got an IQ of 128 at 15. I don't appreciate being patronised. Paul insulted one person, Shadow made a racist comment about a whole country.
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Post by Flamur Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:54 pm

benskis wrote:
Flamur wrote:
benskis wrote:it's all about the money (oil) in Iraq... who the f.. cares of liberty in there?

Iranians are also people, and deserve as much liberty and justice as anyone else in this world.

never told that Iranians are not... did i?

Nope, but you asked "Who the F*** cares about liberty in Iran". Well, we deserve to care as they deserve it as much as we do.
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Post by Flamur Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:56 pm

widdows9000 wrote:First of all I said Talibani or Al Qaeda lives. I at no point said I wanted citizens to die. Also I think you mean Iraqi deaths not Iranian deaths. Explain to me, what was immature about my last post?

Oh and really don't talk to me like I'm a 5 year old. I've got an IQ of 128 at 15. I don't appreciate being patronised. Paul insulted one person, Shadow made a racist comment about a whole country.

Lmao, it's not a racist comment. The americans chose to be represented by an idiot, so they shouldn't expect the world to not call them idiots. If American banks give guns to people that open accounts with them, then obviously there is a huge problem, so don't tell us we've made racist comments when what we've said is true.

And I'll talk to you however I want, because you obviously are oblivious to the war in Iraq and how war actually works. And I don't appreciate being threatened, but that didn't stop you.

Meh, give a kid a bit of authority and they go on a power trip. Learn where your place is in the world and in the eWorld. It's not above anyone else.
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Post by widdows9000 Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:57 pm

Twat-ers I didn't mean I think the whole of Iran is a threat. I meant their nutcase of a president and the students out there who protested to have our captured Navy personnel's heads chopped off.

EDIT: WTF!! Where the hell did I threaten you? Also Flamur I know how the Iraq war works, I watch the news and I've read a few books about it. What the hell is that about me being above someone? Of course I'm going to get a power trip on erep. You need to learn to talk in a nice, civilised way without insulting anyone.


Last edited by widdows9000 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by benskis Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:59 pm

Iran? i guess i told Iraq...
anyway i mean who of those outsiders cares of their liberty?
no one... the only interest is money, big companies donated money on ellection.. so they want it back..
not nations starts the wars.. politicians do... and why? because the push from behind...
that what i mean telling "who the f.. cares..."
i never was rasist minded, and hopefully will remain tolerant about the race, the mentality and the culture...
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Post by Flamur Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:00 pm

benskis wrote:Iran? i guess i told Iraq...
anyway i mean who of those outsiders cares of their liberty?
no one... the only interest is money, big companies donated money on ellection.. so they want it back..
not nations starts the wars.. politicians do... and why? because the push from behind...
that what i mean telling "who the f.. cares..."
i never was rasist minded, and hopefully will remain tolerant about the race, the mentality and the culture...

Oh, sorry, I've got confused with Iraq and Iran. Although the principles stay the same for any of those countries.


I can't quite understand what you mean, but I'll just make it clear that I didn't think you were racist.
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Post by benskis Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:04 pm

i can't be racist... just because i have too much mixed blood... Smile so i'd have to hate myself too Razz
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Post by NotABrick Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:05 pm

Shadow those people fighting for Iraq's liberty are nothing terrorists.
If they wanted to help Iraq then they would be co-operating with the
coalition forces and not trying to kill them.

You seem to be confusing liberty and puppet state. An easy mistake to make.

they've done nothing but kill our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan
by providing arms and training to the terrorists,

In that case we should nuke the CIA. Just thought I'd throw that out
there. The CIA, and American government provided everything from
stinger missile launchers to rifles to the Taliban during the 1980s in
the Afghan-USSR war. We also taught Bin Laden, and others, everything
they know.


You're not asking yourself the vital question: Why do they hate us? We've used the middle east, and the Muslims there as simply a source of oil. For years our, and most of the west's foreign policy towards them has been to F*** em, let them have problems. Those in charge didn't like this, spun the words of their holy book (Can never spell it, so I'm not gonna even try =P), and recruited disilusioned youths. Much like the Nazis in Germany in the 20s-30s [yes, I compared the middle east and Nazi Germany. Whatca' gonna do?]. Hell, the same thign is happening in America with people and the army. It will always happen. People are easily led and misled.

Oh and really don't talk to me like I'm a 5 year old. I've got an IQ of 128 at 15.
Several things:
1. IQ is a very ethnocentric measure of inteligence, and completly ignores artistic talent.
2. It's also a fairly bad measure of it.
3. Most IQ tests you do are utter bollocks. I'm assuming you did this on one of those shitty TV shows, yes? If so, it's bollocks. Iq actually goes higher than 150.
4/ Age doesn't have much measure on IQ (Mine was 148 at age nine. Big whoop. It's 155 now at 18.)

Also Flamur I know how the Iraq war works, I watch the news
Oh in that case you've got no idea how things work. News is one of the most biased sources of information, ever.



Right, think I'm done with that little rant for now. =]

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Post by twaters Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:08 pm

I think he meant that from an outsider point of view, as in, MNC don't really care about liberty as long as they get good payouts. (although this is in itself a stereotype, and there are ethically guided MNCs out there)
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Post by Flamur Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:09 pm

NotABrick, I assume you're American?

Do you find any of the comments myself or Shadow have made to be Racist? If so, please quote them for me.
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Post by mr. brodie Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:10 pm

NotABrick wrote:


4/ Age doesn't have much measure on IQ (Mine was 148 at age nine. Big whoop. It's 155 now at 18.)


F*** off was it Laughing
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Post by NotABrick Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:22 pm

Flamur wrote:NotABrick, I assume you're American?

Do you find any of the comments myself or Shadow have made to be Racist? If so, please quote them for me.

Nope, English =) I'm using us in order to try and remind people that the majority of Europe is disliked by the middle east. Shoulda' been a bit clearer there really. And I can't see how there is any racisim. Generalisations, sure, but everyone makes those, especially about Americans. They're often fairly accurate too.

Brodie; I woul;d prove it to you if I could, 'twas a proper mensa test and everything. But I can't prove it, so I guess people are going to have to decide whos word to take on that. =)

EDIT: I just realised what an amazing impression I'm leaving arguing about things within only days of signing up to the game Shocked

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Post by twaters Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:26 pm

Notabrick; i for one am happy to see new members being active, as long as they can contribute sensibly.

And IQ is unimportant in this conversation, people with low IQs can make very valid contributions to discussions, and people with high IQs can talk rubbish. So can we leave it out the discussion?
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Post by NotABrick Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:27 pm

And IQ is unimportant in this conversation, people with low IQs can
make very valid contributions to discussions, and people with high IQs
can talk rubbish. So can we leave it out the discussion?


That's kinda what I was trying to get at with my rubbishing of the whole thing a few posts back. =)

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