Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Go down

Which one?

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Vote_lcap32%Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Vote_rcap 32% 
[ 12 ]
Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Vote_lcap43%Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Vote_rcap 43% 
[ 16 ]
Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Vote_lcap24%Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Vote_rcap 24% 
[ 9 ]
 
Total Votes : 37

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Empty Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Post by Bob Boblo on Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:14 am

I'm an agnostic, so basically a closet theist Razz
Bob Boblo
Bob Boblo

Number of posts : 2586
Age : 27
eLocation : Newcastle
Erepublik Username : Bob Boblo
E-rep function: : eUKs Resident Anti-War Pansie
Registration date : 2008-05-28

Back to top Go down

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Empty Re: Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Post by Taytaz on Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:15 am

Agnostics are not quite theists...but almost
i am a theist
Taytaz
Taytaz

Number of posts : 3846
Age : 111
eLocation : New South Wales, Australia
Erepublik Username : Taytaz
E-rep function: : Australian Minister of Foreign Affairs, PCP Congressman, Commander of Australian Defence Force
Registration date : 2008-10-01

Back to top Go down

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Empty Re: Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Post by John Forseti on Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:23 am

Theism, belief in a personal god or gods, covers the main religions
Deism, belief in a god or spiritual force, covers non-religious spiritual
Agnosticism, lazy buggers who can't make up their mind Wink

I count myself as an Atheist as there is no sufficient evidence, proof or satisfactory argument to posit the existence of any supernatural entities or forces beyond Bruce Forsyth.
John Forseti
John Forseti

Number of posts : 233
eLocation : North East, eUK
Erepublik Username : John Forseti
E-rep function: : Royal Guard Sgt | Unity Party Member
Registration date : 2008-11-08

Back to top Go down

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Empty Re: Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Post by Taytaz on Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:26 am

...or Chuck Norris
Taytaz
Taytaz

Number of posts : 3846
Age : 111
eLocation : New South Wales, Australia
Erepublik Username : Taytaz
E-rep function: : Australian Minister of Foreign Affairs, PCP Congressman, Commander of Australian Defence Force
Registration date : 2008-10-01

Back to top Go down

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Empty Re: Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Post by Bob Boblo on Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:31 am

...or Bob Boblo Rolling Eyes
Bob Boblo
Bob Boblo

Number of posts : 2586
Age : 27
eLocation : Newcastle
Erepublik Username : Bob Boblo
E-rep function: : eUKs Resident Anti-War Pansie
Registration date : 2008-05-28

Back to top Go down

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Empty Re: Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Post by elbanaan on Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:39 am

atheism obviously!
but I do think jesus is cool.
elbanaan
elbanaan

Number of posts : 499
Age : 32
Registration date : 2008-07-25

Back to top Go down

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Empty Re: Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Post by twaters on Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:21 am

John Forseti wrote:I count myself as an Atheist as there is no sufficient evidence, proof or satisfactory argument to posit the existence of any supernatural entities or forces beyond Bruce Forsyth.

...in your opinion.
twaters
twaters

Number of posts : 3177
Registration date : 2008-03-09

Back to top Go down

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Empty Re: Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Post by Taytaz on Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:24 am

I personally decided that I don't need proof, makes up for all the proof I need in the rest of my life
Taytaz
Taytaz

Number of posts : 3846
Age : 111
eLocation : New South Wales, Australia
Erepublik Username : Taytaz
E-rep function: : Australian Minister of Foreign Affairs, PCP Congressman, Commander of Australian Defence Force
Registration date : 2008-10-01

Back to top Go down

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Empty Re: Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Post by twaters on Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:28 am

^^ i disagree. I do not make any attempt to separate my faith and my rationality, and once the degree and nature of 'proof' is established, the evidence is, in my opinion, overwhelmingly in favour of theism.
twaters
twaters

Number of posts : 3177
Registration date : 2008-03-09

Back to top Go down

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Empty Re: Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Post by avec on Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:50 am

I voted for agnosticism although basically I'm not one. I voted so because in my opinion it is just as close-minded to be atheist as is being theist. As said above, there really is no proof to the contrary on either side.

However what many seem to miss is that no one has actually defined 'god'. How can you believe or not to believe in something that you haven't even defined? There is no point in pointing out facts or proofs if you haven't first defined why they are proofs of something.

I accept debate on the subject only after you define god as either personal god or all-encompassing entity or as something different. Otherwise there really is no point.

I'd write more abstract text with more point of views but English isn't my first language.
avec
avec

Number of posts : 37
Age : 32
Erepublik Username : avec
E-rep function: : Cheerleader!
Registration date : 2008-10-09

Back to top Go down

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Empty Re: Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Post by Glorious Failure on Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:07 am

To quote my Facebook thingy; "I don't believe in fairy tales", although I've been moving towards apathy of recent; whatever is right, I'm doomed.

Do enjoy debating this though, so many ways you can approach it from both sides, and both sides have vaild points.
Glorious Failure
Glorious Failure

Number of posts : 116
Age : 29
eLocation : London, I think.
Erepublik Username : Glorious Failure
E-rep function: : MDU member, forum troll, all round awesome person.
Registration date : 2008-10-12

Back to top Go down

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Empty Re: Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Post by Teh User on Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:35 am

I believe there is something supernatural, I'm just not sure what it is or what it wants. Agnosticism is my view.
Teh User
Teh User

Number of posts : 222
Age : 27
eLocation : eNE England, eUK
Erepublik Username : Teh User
E-rep function: : TUP Member, eUK Patriot, eUK Citizen
Registration date : 2008-12-09

Back to top Go down

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Empty Re: Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Post by John Forseti on Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:29 am

twaters wrote:I do not make any attempt to separate my faith and my rationality, and once the degree and nature of 'proof' is established, the evidence is, in my opinion, overwhelmingly in favour of theism.

I'd be interested to know what that evidence is if it's different from the normal design or first cause arguments I usually encounter.

avec wrote:I voted for agnosticism although basically I'm not one. I voted so because in my opinion it is just as close-minded to be atheist as is being theist. As said above, there really is no proof to the contrary on either side.

Lack of evidence against isn't really a reason for belief or even to sit back and shrug. I think Bertrand Russell put it best;

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense.

As much as is reasonably possible people should doubt until presented evidence for, rather than believe until presented evidence against. It's what the scientific method is based on and it has proved to be far and away more successful than any previous mode of enquiry for obtaining knowledge about the word.
John Forseti
John Forseti

Number of posts : 233
eLocation : North East, eUK
Erepublik Username : John Forseti
E-rep function: : Royal Guard Sgt | Unity Party Member
Registration date : 2008-11-08

Back to top Go down

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Empty Re: Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Post by Jacen Molare on Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:45 am

My Bachelor's degree was in theology, so here goes Shocked

I am a theist (Christian actually) but do not subscribe to the usual BS that is posited as fact. The simple matter is that faith which is what this is really all about is not fact. Faith can never be fact...there is no way I can ever prove my beliefs and disprove another. Faith itself is believing in a statement without proof or evidence of any kind! It kinda annoys me when theists and atheists talk about their beliefs as fact; it is your belief that there is/is not a supreme entity/deity. You cannot prove it!!!

At the end of the day, we have to make up our own minds; do you believe this universe came about by pure random accident? Or do you believe that some unknown entity, who is nothing like us, had a plan and created the universe? When logic and reason are applied to both assertions, they seem ridiculous, but neither is that cause to be agnostic.

This is an interesting discussion, but at the end of the day, we must realise that none of us can prove any assertions we make. Even an assertion such as the sky is blue can be disproved, for how do I know your blue and my blue are the same-it is all rather subjective and experiential!

Jacen Molare

Number of posts : 170
eLocation : Belfast
Erepublik Username : Jacen Molare
E-rep function: : Congressman for Northern Ireland
Registration date : 2008-11-22

Back to top Go down

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Empty Re: Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Post by avec on Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:25 am

John Forseti wrote:As much as is reasonably possible people should doubt until presented evidence for, rather than believe until presented evidence against. It's what the scientific method is based on and it has proved to be far and away more successful than any previous mode of enquiry for obtaining knowledge about the word.

Agreed. However, you took my quote out of context. In the latter part I was trying to say that you must first define what you want evidence for and only after that search for it. For example, I might define that god is a perfect being who created the universe. Now, is there a being that matches my definition? Is my definition of god same as yours, same as the Bible's or same as the Hindus'?

That is what I'd like to emphasize in this topic. After defining what god is you can start to think if you believe in one. Based on this view I don't see myself as atheist or theist or agnostic but something in between. I deny some definitions of god and accept some. Here on you can continue with reading Jacen Molare's post Smile .
avec
avec

Number of posts : 37
Age : 32
Erepublik Username : avec
E-rep function: : Cheerleader!
Registration date : 2008-10-09

Back to top Go down

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Empty Re: Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Post by twaters on Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:23 pm

John Forseti wrote:I'd be interested to know what that evidence is if it's different from the normal design or first cause arguments I usually encounter.


As much as is reasonably possible people should doubt until presented evidence for, rather than believe until presented evidence against. It's what the scientific method is based on and it has proved to be far and away more successful than any previous mode of enquiry for obtaining knowledge about the word.

Well, firstly, what is wrong with arguments from design or first cause?

And i disagree with your assessment of the scientific method. Science actually starts a step backwards, by making certain philosophical assumptions (hence the study of scientific philosphy). These are not verifiable, they are simply assumed, because they have to be so.

I think that Bertrand Russel is way off the mark with that quote, if it's expected to be analogous to Christianity. People do not merely speculate that God could exist, and therefore put it off the scale of reason or investigation. Of course we should doubt in his scenario. But what would we do if an astronaut told us that he'd jettisoned a china teapot whilst between Earth and Mars? What if he took a picture? We would still doubt, and investigate, and reason, but we'd have valid reason to trust him. If so many Christians believe in something, and believe they have valid reasons to do so, ought we not consider investigating, and reasoning? The decrying of Christians as having 'blind faith' is simply Russel's teapot for the atheists; they just suggest that it exists, and accept it.

And Jacen i simply cannot agree with you. Your definition of faith misses the point, in my view. There is always a certain level of 'faith' (or trust) in everything we do or believe. This does not believe that it cannot be evidenced in the same way that everything else is. We cannot prove anything other than maths in a mathematical sense (i.e. absolutely). There are varying degrees of proof. There is always 'faith' in believing in what seems to 'best fit' the available data. In relationships we have a different degree of proof. We do not try to wire our partners'/families'/friends' brains to find out what they truly think of us. There will be evidence, but the ultimate belief is a matter of faith (no matter how conclusive the evidence may seem). Faith is not 'blind' in that we ignore any evidence. The Bible itself heavily emphasises having proof and evidence.

Plus, a Christian God who is nothing like us? Genesis 1:27, Genesis 3:22 etc...

And Avec, i very much agree with you about defining first, but i think that we've assumed the debate is about whether anything supernatural exists.
twaters
twaters

Number of posts : 3177
Registration date : 2008-03-09

Back to top Go down

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Empty Re: Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Post by RomanSoldier on Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:59 pm

i myself do not believe in religion, i cant=p, those who do Believe i congrats you=p as u guys are props happy and have hope in horrible times=p

but in my mind i needs facts for everything, when i hear something i usually dig thru all the opinions/facts before i make a desion =p and well..since i need facts and no way have any faith i cant Believe in god=p

P.S guys dont go over board with this remember=p dont need hurt feelings=p
RomanSoldier
RomanSoldier

Number of posts : 364
Age : 28
eLocation : On a stupid boat filled with 3247239423 men and 3 women =(
Erepublik Username : RomanSoldier
E-rep function: : Sergeant Platoon A (best platoon evah)
Registration date : 2008-11-22

Back to top Go down

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Empty Re: Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Post by Jacen Molare on Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:13 pm

Hey thats cool Twaters; we don't need to agree with each other. My faith and beliefs will not be shaken...I guess my views are in response to many people I know (especially Christians), who contend that there is a God, and that they have absolute proof. Of course, if you look hard enough, you can see things which can act as evidence for the existence of God; however, these pieces of evidence are often far removed from fact-the simple reason is that these are more experiential than anything else, therefore not relevant to others. I firmly believe in God, but believe that faith and any evidence I may be able to present comes from my experience of God. I think if we want to think of fact as true fact, then it cannot be experience either.

I hope I am making sense with this?!!

Jacen Molare

Number of posts : 170
eLocation : Belfast
Erepublik Username : Jacen Molare
E-rep function: : Congressman for Northern Ireland
Registration date : 2008-11-22

Back to top Go down

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Empty Re: Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Post by twaters on Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:39 pm

From what i understand, you seem to think that 'proof' of God tends to come from experience, which is therefore essentially relative, and hardly applicable in arguments. I would have to say that here you're hoisted by your own petard [because i love the phrase, not because of any aggressive intent], as you are asserting your own personal experiences of arguments for God. These are, by your own admission, irrelevent to others, as they are solely based on your own experiences!
twaters
twaters

Number of posts : 3177
Registration date : 2008-03-09

Back to top Go down

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Empty Re: Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Post by Jacen Molare on Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:45 pm

Yes, thats essentially it twaters...I am not sure I have conclusive proof to offer others...and I mean really conclusive. Even fact can be subjective (and is therefore not fact). The short of it is, that whilst I believe in God, and believe I have had personal experience of him, I believe much of the facts involved in the arguments for the divine are subjective.

Perhaps a new word to describe fact would be more constructive; for example, I believe that looking at the wonder of the universe is enough to prove the existence of a creator (it just can't have been a cosmic accident), but at the same time, I do not see this as fact! Perhaps I am just being semantic in my usage of language Very Happy

Jacen Molare

Number of posts : 170
eLocation : Belfast
Erepublik Username : Jacen Molare
E-rep function: : Congressman for Northern Ireland
Registration date : 2008-11-22

Back to top Go down

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Empty Re: Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Post by twaters on Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:03 pm

I do agree with you that there is a great deal more subjectivity than we possibly realise (an issue i have with modern-day, hard-line materialism), but i generally jump over most of the philosophical gambits to reach the starting point of my arguments - i generally presume that certain fundamentals are fact (using 'common sense' for want of a better term) - else we are simply in a subjectivity swamp from which we cannot escape.

But i build upon this foundation with my rationality - i do not presume that to argue God we have to rely on 'swamp arguments'. That isn't a idea that i can square with the Biblical account. If He made the world, it must be logically explicable by Him.

And i'm not saying that i have any kind of 'killer argument' that would instantly convert people. I'm sure you can find subjectivity in what i say (for example, "in my opinion" Razz), but what i will claim is that theism is logically coherent, and is preferable as an explanation.
twaters
twaters

Number of posts : 3177
Registration date : 2008-03-09

Back to top Go down

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Empty Re: Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Post by Jacen Molare on Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:10 pm

I would agree with the statement that 'theism is logically coherent'. Like I said, I believe in God, I believe that he created the universe, and it makes more sense than saying it was a cosmic accident. And I guess your 'common sense' approach is where I start for myself. I am just recognising the flaws of trying to impose my 'fundamental facts'. If people can reach those same conclusions without a push from me, then all the better, but I feel it is much better to get to that place by oneself than to have to be forced there. I guess its kinda what goes on in Fundamentalism (of any religion). Views and beliefs are enforced and rigidly adhered to. I just feel (at least in my interpretation of the Biblical narrative of God and Christ) that this is not the way God would want it to happen.

DISCLAIMER: I do not just specifically refer to Christianity purely as a snub to other religions (as I realise this is about theism in general), but rather as it is the religion I have most experience with.

Jacen Molare

Number of posts : 170
eLocation : Belfast
Erepublik Username : Jacen Molare
E-rep function: : Congressman for Northern Ireland
Registration date : 2008-11-22

Back to top Go down

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Empty Re: Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Post by twaters on Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:19 pm

Ok, well then i guess we have essentially the same opinion - although with a seemingly different expression of the term 'faith' (which is probably a discussion for a different thread/PM) - that while ultimately we cannot prove anything 100% (given certain unknowables due to subjectivity), we can provide a logically coherent, evidence based case for theism.

And the 'fundmental facts' must obviously be reviewed, because it is likely that this will skew our eventual conclusion, but they musn't be forced on people.

And so we'll see what happens when John, and hopefully others, see this thread, and the debate will begin...
twaters
twaters

Number of posts : 3177
Registration date : 2008-03-09

Back to top Go down

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Empty Re: Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Post by shadow on Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:21 am

religious discussions, twaters has gone active again. Razz Laughing


I don't even bother discussing that with him, I know he always drives me into a corner.
shadow
shadow
Ex-Admin

Number of posts : 2942
Age : 30
Erepublik Username : shadowukcs
E-rep function: : Admin, Aurum founder, UKRP founder, ex-president, ex-mayor, UKCS, Mi-6 founder
Registration date : 2007-12-24

Back to top Go down

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Empty Re: Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Post by Teh User on Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:14 am

RomanSoldier wrote:i myself do not believe in religion, i cant=p, those who do Believe i congrats you=p as u guys are props happy and have hope in horrible times=p

but in my mind i needs facts for everything, when i hear something i usually dig thru all the opinions/facts before i make a desion =p and well..since i need facts and no way have any faith i cant Believe in god=p

P.S guys dont go over board with this remember=p dont need hurt feelings=p

I need facts for everything. The fear of death means I believe that there is some sort of afterlife, especially due to some of the weird things that have happened with dead relatives.
Teh User
Teh User

Number of posts : 222
Age : 27
eLocation : eNE England, eUK
Erepublik Username : Teh User
E-rep function: : TUP Member, eUK Patriot, eUK Citizen
Registration date : 2008-12-09

Back to top Go down

Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism. Empty Re: Theism, Atheism or Agnosticism.

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum