Religion & Education

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Post by William of Orange on Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:27 pm

Sir Graystar wrote:I'm sure there are planty of smart vicars out there, who could have been university proffessors if they hadn't been religious.
Some of them are Doctors of Divinity (DD), which is the top academic degree: so they could indeed be university professors, and I believe some of them are.
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Post by Brian Boru on Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:31 pm

William of Orange wrote:
Brian Boru wrote:Well, you seem to take the words of clergymen, the only difference between myself and them is that I know what I'm talking about, and I don't molest little kids.
You're thinking of your own clergymen there son. We read the Bible for ourselves and believe in the Priesthood of all believers.
No, Catholic clergymen aren't "my own" at all.
I'm full blown anti-religious atheist, and don't let yourself forget it.

Some of them are Doctors of Divinity (DD), which is the top academic degree: so they could indeed be university professors, and I believe some of them are.
Theology is a laughable university subject.
The study of fairytales.
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Post by StanWephen on Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:00 pm

emilycvalentine wrote:I think it takes some of the fun out, I imagine a lot of us here are students (based on the ages shown) or have just come out of education; we don't need to play games about learning and taking tests as well. Skills increase the more we work so surely the idea of getting better jobs by going the the eUK education system is pointless.

Pfff, nobody's forcing you to do it! And we're not going to increase pay from an eUK education system. I guess you don't like playing The Sims then either, from your comment there.

Exactly, I'm a student and frankly I'm worried that people less responsible than myself will ruin their real life futures by studying for a game test instead of focusing on their studies and I will not stand by and see this happening!

If there are people really like that playing E-republik, don't you think they just wouldn't study anyway? C'mon, either a) give people some credit for being intelligent responsible people or b) admit that people would waste their time and not focus on studying if they're playing E-republik ANYWAY i.e. if they're in government, a paratrooper etc. I know when I was a mayor it took me a good 2 hours everyday.

I still think a Minister of Education should be created with whom the government entrusts the setting up of the education system. I may make a proposal now.
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Post by Flamur on Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:04 pm

Is there any way to report a topic that may need a review for locking? Or at least have it cleaned of some of the pointless religious posts?
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Post by Hassan Pesearn on Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:06 pm

Flamur wrote:Is there any way to report a topic that may need a review for locking? Or at least have it cleaned of some of the pointless religious posts?

We definitely need something like that
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Post by Big Boy Bulley on Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:07 pm

No, just report the individual posts!
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Post by Flamur on Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:29 pm

Big Boy Bulley wrote:No, just report the individual posts!

I cba to go through the 7 pages, most of which contains a lot of bullshit regarding faith and whatever else they were debating about, just to report posts individually.

I would much rather report a topic for either a cleanup or a locking. I would hate to lock a topic like this, as it does have a good meaning. But it needs a cleanup and a warning to those that seem to enjoy throwing threads off topic.
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Post by Sir Graystar on Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:32 pm

We were just having a healthy discussion. Admittidly it got a bit out of hand on page 7...
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Post by Flamur on Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:34 pm

Sir Graystar wrote:We were just having a healthy discussion. Admittidly it got a bit out of hand on page 7...

That's the only page I bothered reading.
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Post by Brian Boru on Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:35 pm

Flamur wrote:Is there any way to report a topic that may need a review for locking? Or at least have it cleaned of some of the pointless religious posts?

Aww, don't cut short my amusement!
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Post by Flamur on Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:40 pm

Brian Boru wrote:
Flamur wrote:Is there any way to report a topic that may need a review for locking? Or at least have it cleaned of some of the pointless religious posts?

Aww, don't cut short my amusement!


I'm not quite sure what to make of that. If you want amusement, go to your own forums and create it.

Although I do agree with the very few posts that I read (which you made) in this thread, it still went off-topic.
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Post by Brian Boru on Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:52 pm

Flamur wrote:
Brian Boru wrote:
Flamur wrote:Is there any way to report a topic that may need a review for locking? Or at least have it cleaned of some of the pointless religious posts?

Aww, don't cut short my amusement!


I'm not quite sure what to make of that. If you want amusement, go to your own forums and create it.

Although I do agree with the very few posts that I read (which you made) in this thread, it still went off-topic.
Well, debating this sort of thing is entertaining..

And in the context of the eUK education system, religion is pointless.
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Post by Flamur on Sun Sep 28, 2008 2:56 pm

Brian Boru wrote:
Flamur wrote:
Brian Boru wrote:
Flamur wrote:Is there any way to report a topic that may need a review for locking? Or at least have it cleaned of some of the pointless religious posts?

Aww, don't cut short my amusement!


I'm not quite sure what to make of that. If you want amusement, go to your own forums and create it.

Although I do agree with the very few posts that I read (which you made) in this thread, it still went off-topic.
Well, debating this sort of thing is entertaining..

And in the context of the eUK education system, religion is pointless.

Religion is pointless in eRep. Full stop.


Anyway, can an admin clean this thread out?
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Post by Bob Boblo on Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:12 pm

Brian Boru wrote:"Faith" doesn't determine the intelligence of students.

"Faith" is generally a negative factor in intelligence

How could you get the first bit so right, but the second bit so wrong?!

I think some posts should be deleted, or if deemed acceptable, split the thread.
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Post by Flamur on Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:17 pm

Bob Boblo wrote:
Brian Boru wrote:"Faith" doesn't determine the intelligence of students.

"Faith" is generally a negative factor in intelligence

How could you get the first bit so right, but the second bit so wrong?!

I think some posts should be deleted, or if deemed acceptable, split the thread.

Debates about religion always end ugly.
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Post by Malcovent on Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:35 pm

Flamur wrote:
Bob Boblo wrote:
Brian Boru wrote:"Faith" doesn't determine the intelligence of students.

"Faith" is generally a negative factor in intelligence

How could you get the first bit so right, but the second bit so wrong?!

I think some posts should be deleted, or if deemed acceptable, split the thread.

Debates about religion always end ugly.

Agreed. But not as ugly as Billy Bright Laughing
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Post by twaters on Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:59 pm

I'm going to request that this thread be split, and the 'Religion in Education' argument moved to the Brain Zone to keep this on topic.
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Post by twaters on Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:21 pm

Well that was quick. Thanks Ip.

Brian, the God Delusion states this poll as being among scientists as the intellectuals, (thus, in his eyes, proof that religious people are thick, because they aren't scientists). However, he also states that relgious people were less likely to be interested in science (as part of some other agreessive rant). So, if less religious people enter the field of science, does it not stand to reason that less scientists will be religious?!

Btw, i happen to know 3 vicars. All three studied at Oxford University. Guess that's 100%.... [disclaimer: this is (although factually 100% truthful) just to show how polls can be skewed should it be desired]

I will assume that your comment about theology is copied and pasted from Dawkins too. Theology is a very intellectually rigorous subject, but it stands to reason that Dawkins dismisses it. If he does so, he has no reason to actually know anything about it, and thus he can make the kind of ignorant comments he does make about religion.


As for faith schools, i daresay it's not faith that is detrimental to education, rather the degree of dogmatism. This occurs at all points on the 'religious spectrum' (i.e. from atheist to theist). As an example, i have been ranted at many, many times that evolution is fact, fact, fact, and there is tonnes of proof and that i'm ignorant and a creationist. Yet all i did was ask a question.

'But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good;'
I Thessalonians 5:21

-says the Bible. Admittedly, there are a great deal of closed-minded relgious people who refuse to do this. But you must, in turn, admit the same for atheism.

The school i mentioned earlier is in no way dogmatic. Dawkins says it is, purely because he seems to want atheist dogma implanted in schools, and all religion removed. An investigator (who actually wanted to find out the truth) looked into Dawkin's claim, and found that the school in question had a range of science teachers; 3 young earth creationists, 3 Christian evolutionists and 3 non-religious evolutionists; who taught the arguments for and against all viewpoints, leaving the students to decide for themselves. Detrimental to education? I don't think so. I think it's a massively positive step for education, and that in the circumstances (i.e. setting up the academy in a poor area, where state schooling was/is failing) it's been nothing but good for it.
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Post by Deilos on Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:55 am

Theology is actually an extremely intellectual subject. It's philosophy, just focusing on the questions that are the hardest to answer. Besides, just because you study theology doesn't mean you're religious... I'm a stark atheist with absolutely no belief in any form of god whatsoever but I would be interested in studying theology (although I probably won't because I'm more interested in physics).

Faith has no effect on intelligence, as Brian pointed out, however that works both ways. However, creationism I do feel has a negative impact on intelligence; somebody who denies all evidence that the Earth has been around for billions of years and all evidence of evolution, without any evidence of their own, would struggle to find many people who would call them intelligent. They function on arguments similar to Billy Bright's - no evidence, just repeating the same things without bothering to actually see what evidence other people can give.
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Post by twaters on Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:34 pm

Hmm, i was expecting Brian to reply to this...

Any Deilos, about your point, plenty of people accept evolution with no evidence; there are ignorant people of all beliefs. The issue is not creationism or evolution, it's about people refusing to examine the beliefs they hold.
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Post by Bob Boblo on Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:45 pm

In all these RL debates, Twaters seems to come in at the end and be spot on.
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Post by Siobhan Griffin on Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:48 pm

Very impressive response of his too Smile

I'd lost track of this discussion, now I'm going to go back and reread it in all its glory.
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