Glastonbury '08/Nelson Mandela...

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Post by twaters on Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:22 am

William of Orange wrote:Yes, the former regime were doing better! Everyone was better off, including the blacks: they just couldn't vote in Union of South Africa elections (they had their own native nations in which they were citizens). The simple fact is that it was a more prosperous time.

And no, I'm not a BNP supporter, and I have already made reference to the Holocaust in another post, so I'm not a Holocaust denier.

Which affects the quality of your life more: voting once every four to five years, or eating three times a day?

Some people would say that principles are more important. I would gladly eat less frequently if it meant that black people weren't oppressed and abused.

As for Mandela's past and his reformation William, you don't seem to be able to consider second chances.Which, in my opinion, are an essential component of being a human being.
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Post by Skinny Bones Jones on Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:25 am

No offence twat-ers, but you can't give everyone a second chance.. it depends on how extreme their wrong doings are.

Would you give a murderer or rapist a second chance?
I certainly hope not.
Would you give a bloke who organised terrorist attacks and violation of human rights a second chance?
Well, plenty more controversial people than Mandela fall under this category (whatever their reason for doing so).

None of the above deserve a second chance.
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Post by Flamur on Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:03 pm

Skinny Bones Jones wrote:No offence twat-ers, but you can't give everyone a second chance.. it depends on how extreme their wrong doings are.

Would you give a murderer or rapist a second chance?
I certainly hope not.
Would you give a bloke who organised terrorist attacks and violation of human rights a second chance?
Well, plenty more controversial people than Mandela fall under this category (whatever their reason for doing so).

None of the above deserve a second chance.

If the murderer murdered a rapist, then yes. If the murderer murdered a terrorist, then yes. If the murderer murdered George Bush, then yes.
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Post by Skinny Bones Jones on Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:52 pm

Well, I can't say I agree with your way of thinking.
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Post by Flamur on Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:57 pm

Skinny Bones Jones wrote:Well, I can't say I agree with your way of thinking.

I don't expect you to. I believe that we should give second chances to those that commit crimes only to punish another (Of which deserves to be punished). After they have served their own punishment, ofcourse.
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Post by 03samg on Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:59 pm

Well, personally I agree with Twat-ers on this one totally - with his post. In terms of forgiveness, I believe we can all truly forgive - not easy - but we can and believe everyone is entitled to a second chance, forgiveness.

If one is truly sorry, then it is indeed right to give the individual a second chance regardless of the degree of the "crime". I still disagree in the use of violence in any situation however we must have the capacity to forgive when people are sorry for the mistakes they have made
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Post by Skinny Bones Jones on Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:05 pm

Well if you ran the country im sure the prisons would be much clearer Smile
Streets wouldnt be safe though.
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Post by 03samg on Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:08 pm

Razz Well I would make sure the prison system was reformation based. If people arent truly repentful, then no arguments with the legal system! Also, I'm talking about general morality as it is like one of those questions of whether there is a limit to forgivness.

Very Happy
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Post by Skinny Bones Jones on Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:18 pm

check your PMs btw.
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Post by 03samg on Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:34 pm

okay! will do. Very Happy
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Post by William of Orange on Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:42 pm

So, Sam, let's see if I've got this right: all a terrorist has to do is not return to a life of violence on his release from prison, and he suddenly becomes a great man that is above reproach?

We have a hell of lot of great men who've been released from the Maze then, haven't we?

By the time Mandela was released he was too old to go back to active paramilitary insurgency, times had changed and he knew he could just sit back and become President.

This makes him cleverer than most terrorists and violent criminals: but it by no means makes him great, and certainly not beyond criticism.

He has blood on his hands. If he is truly sorry and has reformed his ways (and he certainly has done the latter) then he should be forgiven, yes: but we should not forget.

What have you got against the way I talk, Flamur? Perhaps you'd have a different impression if our communications weren't all in writing: I have a rather broad accent.
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