Glastonbury '08/Nelson Mandela...

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Post by Bob Boblo on Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:03 pm

Can I ask William, do you consider fighting an apartheid to be a just cause?
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Post by William of Orange on Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:05 pm

Bob Boblo wrote:There was no intent to terrorise - he is not a terrorist
Nonsense. Gandhi is renowned for his adherence to non-violence: why should this clown get away with adopting terrorism, just because he tried other methods first?

Robert Mugabe tried his hand at democracy and was quite successful for a while. Does that excuse his present behaviour? If not, then why should Mandela get away with adopting terror tactics?
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Post by Bob Boblo on Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:08 pm

Mugabes cause is not a just one. Mandela was fighting for a just cause - liberation for black people.
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Post by twaters on Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:08 pm

Actually, there's also plenty of evidence to suggest that Gandhi wasn't as great as he is made out to be either.
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Post by William of Orange on Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:08 pm

Bob Boblo wrote:Can I ask William, do you consider fighting an apartheid to be a just cause?
Apartheid was ultimately brought down by international pressure. There is no excuse for terrorism.

This is in no way meant as a justification of the apartheid principles themselves: but you do realise the average black South African is much worse off than he was under the previous regime, don't you? The ANC have ruined the economy.
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Post by William of Orange on Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:09 pm

twat-ers wrote:Actually, there's also plenty of evidence to suggest that Gandhi wasn't as great as he is made out to be either.
Shall we save that for another day?
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Post by Bob Boblo on Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:13 pm

Do you know what it is like to live under an apartheid? Because if not, I'm not sure you can pass judgement

Mandela was no angel, not by a long stretch, but he successfully fought for a just cause, and I don't think he should be critisized.
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Post by Bob Boblo on Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:16 pm

Anyways, I thought you believed in 'fighting for what you believe in'.
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Post by William of Orange on Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:18 pm

Bob Boblo wrote:Anyways, I thought you believed in 'fighting for what you believe in'.
I haven't blown anyone up on here yet, have I?
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Post by Skinny Bones Jones on Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:19 pm

No Boblo, he should be criticised.
How can you condone the ANC after Mandela has admitted they violated human rights?
How can you condone a bloke who organised bombings and the like?
Mandela fought for a just cause until he done went and did that military stuffs.
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Post by Bob Boblo on Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:21 pm

I didn't word that well,

He still deserves recognition
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Post by Bob Boblo on Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:22 pm

I wasn't conding the ANC, anyways

I'm going to bed now, BTW, so I won't be able to reply, unless you want to continue this tomorow
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Post by Skinny Bones Jones on Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:34 pm

Na it's fine. I don't like controversy much.
Night Boblo. x
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Post by mr. brodie on Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:01 am

... Stop Hijacking my threads Evil or Very Mad
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Post by NotABrick on Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:01 am

Obvious trolls are obvious.

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Post by 03samg on Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:01 am

Soz (Brodie), just thought id get a word in! Very Happy

Mandela and co used bombings and militant methods to end aparthied and spent 27 years in jail. What he is honoured and remembered for is his transformation during the time. He did not hate those who held him as in other countries. He did not seek to punish white people in SA but instead intended to create and equal SA regardless of his hardships.

He teaches forgiveness, leadership, and the hope in the world. He is not God but human, but a role model for all!
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Post by Flamingo on Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:04 am

This whole topic is about trolling and then pretending you're a mature adult.
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Post by William of Orange on Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:07 am

03samg wrote:Mandela and co used bombings and militant methods to end aparthied and spent 27 years in jail. What he is honoured and remembered for is his transformation during the time. He did not hate those who held him as in other countries. He did not seek to punish white people in SA but instead intended to create and equal SA regardless of his hardships.

He teaches forgiveness, leadership, and the hope in the world. He is not God but human, but a role model for all!
That started off quite balanced, then got lost in a flurry of trendy lefty revisionism.
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Post by 03samg on Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:19 am

If the truth hurts, what can I do mate?

That has nothing to do with my RL socialist beliefs.

Aparthied had to be ended and quite frankly that was the only way. I still believe violence is wrong as I'm a pacifist however, that occasion was a moment in history that required change.

But its not about that for me, it the transformation he under took as aforementioned.
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Post by William of Orange on Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:32 am

03samg wrote:Aparthied had to be ended and quite frankly that was the only way. I still believe violence is wrong as I'm a pacifist however, that occasion was a moment in history that required change.
As it wasn't the terrorist violence that ended apartheid, however, this does not justify a single death on the hands of Mandela and his cronies.


Last edited by William of Orange on Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:41 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : original post lost)
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Post by tim09 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:08 am

03samg's point still stands its about what he did after that he is respected for. ever heard the saying "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"
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Post by William of Orange on Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:10 am

tim09 wrote:ever heard the saying "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter"
Of course I have: apologists for terrorists have been using it for years.
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Post by tim09 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:21 am

so what about the aussies fighting back ingame? are they freedom fighters or obviously terrorists? Razz
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Post by William of Orange on Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:32 am

Fighting a military campaign to reinforce the principle of self-determination (ie 1982 Falklands War, 1991 Gulf War, &c) is completely different to terrorism (ie Sein Fein-IRA, AQ, ANC, &c). Only someone completely devoid or RL political, historical and military knowledge would fail to see that.
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Post by Bob Boblo on Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:34 am

We have remember, this is about Mandela, not the ANC.

And Mandela is quoted as saying the bombs were intended be set off in way that didn't harm anyone

I'm not sure how they planned to that but his intentions were good
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